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IskatuMesk
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I picked up motbThe game doesn't run that much better than on my 9800 pro which is shocking considering how ridiculously powerful this system is (2900XT). I haven't looked at the editor yet but I do plan to make some areas for Ashura in my spare time.. such as mars and Deep Hives, as well as anything else I can think of.
Efforts to recover my MoM module just gave me tons of errors when I tried to open areas... so yeah. If I want to make it I'm going to have to restart from scratch.
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SorceressAshura
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Well I'm glad to have you aboard Iskatu. The machine I use is about 3 years old, just with upgraded ram, and video card. It runs fine on my machine, which says alot since mine is a dinosaur compared to whats available out there nowadays. The best advice on building areas, to prevent them from getting corrupt, or lag issues.. are to keep them small. Try not to go any larger then medium 16x16 areas... Also here are some good tips.
Trees, its recommended that you use only 4 to 5 tree types per area. (that includes the shrubs) Any more, and it's laaaaggg city. A good way to work around that limitation, is to use the Random Seed, in the properties window of each tree type. That number you see in there?.. Try changing that number, from anything to 1 - 99999999 It causes that tree model to alter its branches. So that you can place 100 copies of that single tree type, yet each of them will look different. It won't lag becuase its using the same tree type. Just renders it differently depending on the number.
Buildings, use textures to "engrave" them into the earth. Like outlining their base. This isn't very important, becuase usually a builder will place grass, crates, brushes/trees, etc,.. around it. But for the careful eye of some players, it looks like the building was carelessly "placed" there.. And not looking like it was "built" there.
Coloring,... In the terrain tab, if you click "Color" then scroll down to the color box. You can choose a color from there to "accent" your textures. Since there is a limit of 6 textures per tile, the Color tool brush is a great work around. Try to stick below the limit of 6, stay with 5 .. at best 4. Because you can always use the color brush found in the terrain tab to alter the colors of a texture.
Grass.. remember the most important rule. "Less is more" Try to restrain yourself using large amounts of grass. This I found to be the main reason behind area corruptions. Place them in the obviously places, but limit yourself to only areas where you know the player will see it, and walk through it. Don't bother putting it in the outter non-walkable areas. Use trees and environmental objects to decorate those areas.
Speaking of environmental objects,.. the most valuable tip I've come to find was changing all the placables you know the player won't use... (that you use just for show/display reasons) convert them into environmental objects. When doing so, all the engine does is render the image of that placable, it doesn't clutter the engine with useless placabe info that can lag the player. You will also find that doing that, will free up more room to place more "placables" in the area. If you have a placeable that obstructs the player from moving somewhere, then use the walkmesh cutter trigger found in the triggers section. What I usually do, is I place the objects down, like scenic houses, or rock piles... convert them into environmental objects, and then use a walkmesh cutter to remove the walkmesh parts from the environmental object. So that it appears to be solid ingame, when in fact, it's just a hollow 3d image.
Lights, put them in the obvious places. Torches, lamp posts, camp fires.. And if your looking to reserve memory for players.. Remember to remove their Cast Shadows, in the properties window. People who have average to low end computers probably wont see them anyway becuase they turned off the feature in the Video Options. And on a PW, People usually play using the minimal specs, just so they have the advantage of running at top speed. At least I do, anyway. The "baked" light on the ground and objects around the light source usually does the trick. Shadows is just the icing on the cake, or at least I think so.
I'm sure theres more tips, but those are the major ones that come to mind. If you have any questions, let me know.
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IskatuMesk
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Hey, thanks for the tips, but I already knew most of those 
I used like 20 assorted tree objects and spammed grass in the Forest of Forestiness that was 32x32 and my 9800 pro machine easily handled that map on max settings. What really killed performance was the Stormspire which used some degree of actual lighting and shadows... and that mangled that machine. It's too bad I don't have those maps anymore to benchmark them on a more updated system and determine what a safe region for this level of performance would be.
I think what corrupted the module was my effort to alter AI performance by changing variables. The AI never ever freaking casts spells... it's rather annoying.
edit -
Well I managed to make an area that crashes the game 2 seconds into entering it. Same old same old I suppose... considering all this area contains is two dragons set to 'defender' faction and that's it...
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SorceressAshura
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| Quote: | | I used like 20 assorted tree objects and spammed grass in the Forest of Forestiness that was 32x32 and my 9800 pro machine easily handled that map on max settings. |
Bad move. What might handle ok for you,.. won't for anyone else. No one would be able to play your module, becuase not many people have the same system you've got. So it's pointless for you to make an area like that if your the only one who's going to see it. Stick to my guidelines, I put them up for a reason, hun.
| Quote: | | What really killed performance was the Stormspire which used some degree of actual lighting and shadows... and that mangled that machine. |
Yes, that and the 20 tree types, and large amounts of grass. Try it out for yourself if you think I'm wrong. Make an area following the guidelines I gave you, and compare it to that one. I gaurantee you won't have any issues as far as crashing goes.
| Quote: | | I think what corrupted the module was my effort to alter AI performance by changing variables. The AI never ever freaking casts spells... it's rather annoying. |
No, since I'm an experienced nwn2 scripter I can say with confidence that variables, and AI have little to do with the performance. Why? Becuase scripts and variables that don't compile correctly won't work at all. There is a fine line between the script engine, and render. It's the way the toolset was designed, if the parameters of a script don't add up, the debug thats built in to the editor will cause the engine to skip the portions of the script that don't add up. So if your changing variables on the fly without taking in account the factors that surround those variables. Like spell hooks, and 2das. The script won't work. It's a tedious process, but its put in for a reason.
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Biuleco
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Um... I know I shouldn't be poking my nose into that, but I think you should pay heed to her "Less is more", not to mention that not everyone has an all powerful machine like you (myself, for example)... I think it'd be wise to follow her guidelines to heart, if we don't want tons of people complaining of crashing areas in the future.
Just my opinion.
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IskatuMesk
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I build mods based on my system specs. Besides, by the time anything like MoM2 is released, my hardware would be considered fairly low on the spectrum. 
I don't mind anyone throwing in their opinions. Go ahead. It gives me something to think about.
My large areas performed rather decently on my old computer, a athlon 2500 with 1 gig of ram and a 9800 pro; this is considered considerably lower than the game's minimum reqs but despite that only the Stormspire really killed that system.
Although I did try Ashura's demo mobule and two areas in particular seriously dropped my fps... I'm going to assume that the game isn't taking advantage of my dual core processor and my video card or she did something to those areas that is impacting performance even greater than my huge 32x32 zones did to my old machine. Or the engine is seriously that inefficient.
I am going to be careful when I construct PW zones though. I don't think they'd crash, but my love for fancy lighting will kill older systems.
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Biuleco
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I understand your point ,but you have to think that there -are- people with weaker pcs that would want to play in the mod, plus, sometimes fancy ain't the biggest thing of a pw.
You can't make everyone adapt their possibilities to yourself.. generally it's a mutual process, or you have to adapt to the majority, in my opinion.. unless you're planning to build something to play by yourself. XD
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IskatuMesk
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Yeah, I can see what you mean. For PW areas, I'd probably reduce the amount of lights I'd use, while in my module I'd go all-out, since I am producing my module for a specific number of people I know who would be able to run it.
I'm going to need to experiment to see what really impacts performance. I don't think area size is a huge contributing factor because the only areas that are lagging me are really small exterior ones... for reasons I am unsure of.
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SorceressAshura
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I can guess what area you had the problem with in my module, and honestly that wasn't one of my favorites to do. Alot of fire and particle systems cloud that area.  But I liked the visual of the town burning, it really increased the drama of what was going on. As soon as the launch starts, I'll probably return to working on that module.
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IskatuMesk
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The fire actually didn't impact performance nearly as much as the second last area with the waterfall.
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SorceressAshura
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The waterfall area?.. that doesn't make any sense. There's nothing there that should decrease performance. And since it's entirely a cutscene, it should of run smoothly. The most comments I recieved was about the fire. Can you describe what exactly you experience during that cutscene?
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IskatuMesk
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Okay, let's say, in Interior areas, I get an average of 80-100fps. Now, in the fire area, I got around 20-30 under normal circumstances. Okay, still perfectly playable, and it looked great.
Now in the waterfall area I got like 10. It was much, much slower than the fire area. It reminded me of the Stormspire on my 9800 pro. (Remember, I frapsed the Stormspire at 10fps on that machine except for the dock and portal which gave me like 4-5 fps). I have no idea why it lagged much more than the other area.
Also you seriously need to teach me how you made those cinematics... I want to make something. 
And how to important custom dialog voices.
... And music.
... And voice sets in general. :\
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SorceressAshura
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Actually, I think it was the UV Scroll of textures from the waterfall. Its the only thing that I can think of when taking a look at the area. In Rhydin City, for the PW I have set up similar scrolling textures to produce waves that surround the water edges. I noticed the frame rates were extremely high, so naturally I assume thats whats causing the trouble for you. Try removeing the waterfall placables and tell me what you get then.
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Making cinematic cutscenes, like the ones I crafted for the display module were all done through conversations. You need to set up static cameras, and tons of actor characters. In the conversations, pay attention to camera nodes, and speakers/listeners. Speakers are the ones who are speaking. (naturally..) And listeners are the ones who are facing the ones who are speaking. Be prepared to review your cutscenes over.. and over,.. and over .. and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over... and over..... Until it's just right. lol
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IskatuMesk
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Cinematics sound a bit like in wc3 except they involve scripting and scripting makes my blood itch. Except you can't move the cameras about?
I'll poke the waterfalls afterwards and see if that's what's causing fires...
Frame rates are supposed to be high, not low
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